thanks jonnyamos much appreciated, that is the right tune, hopefully someone will be able to id it. Its a tricky one as I have tried for 15 years to guess which artist it could be or what label it could be on, but there arent any real clues to help me on the track. I once thought it could be a B-side on an R & S record but I have checked out a lot of R & S records to no avail.